Meth or Alcohol?
Nov 3, 2009, 10:49 AM
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Meth or Alcohol?
Which do u guys think is better? And what brand system is the best? im new to the evo game and never had anyexperiance with meth or alcohol. any info will be great apprecated thanks.
Nov 5, 2009, 02:33 PM
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Methanol's chemical forumla is CH3OH, and it is a form of alcohol, just as isopropanol and ethanol are.
Methanol has the best overall properties in terms of detonation controll and heat absorbtion, and it is readily available, hence why it it used most of the time.
I'm not here to sell directly, but I certanly recomend you take a look at our systems, as they are available from supporting vendors on this site such as Ultimate CC.
Methanol has the best overall properties in terms of detonation controll and heat absorbtion, and it is readily available, hence why it it used most of the time.
I'm not here to sell directly, but I certanly recomend you take a look at our systems, as they are available from supporting vendors on this site such as Ultimate CC.
Nov 6, 2009, 03:50 PM
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Methanol's chemical forumla is CH3OH, and it is a form of alcohol, just as isopropanol and ethanol are.
Methanol has the best overall properties in terms of detonation controll and heat absorbtion, and it is readily available, hence why it it used most of the time.
I'm not here to sell directly, but I certanly recomend you take a look at our systems, as they are available from supporting vendors on this site such as Ultimate CC.
Methanol has the best overall properties in terms of detonation controll and heat absorbtion, and it is readily available, hence why it it used most of the time.
I'm not here to sell directly, but I certanly recomend you take a look at our systems, as they are available from supporting vendors on this site such as Ultimate CC.
Nov 7, 2009, 08:41 AM
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I use a water/ethanol mix, because ethanol, in its de-natured state ( methylated spirits) is much easier to get hold of here in the UK. It is also a bit safer to handle then methanol. A 50/50 mix of water and alky is also a fair bit safer to store, say in the trunk or your garage.
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Nov 9, 2009, 03:24 PM
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Honestly you get into a huge debate on mixtures. We recomend a 50/50 mix because:
1) Its effective. It allows fantastic temperature drops on the intake side, while also absorbing a lot of excess heat in combustion. It boosts octane to levels that most people will not/do not need in their tune. 50/50 water methanol will provide enough resistance to detonation (aka octane) for most aggressive tunes to be run without soark knock. At the same time, the heat absorbtion is also a good way to prevent any pre-igniton issues as well.
2) It's safe. It has a fairly high flash point.
3) It's cheap.
Having said all that, people have accomplished good results with pure meth, pure water, and everything in between.
1) Its effective. It allows fantastic temperature drops on the intake side, while also absorbing a lot of excess heat in combustion. It boosts octane to levels that most people will not/do not need in their tune. 50/50 water methanol will provide enough resistance to detonation (aka octane) for most aggressive tunes to be run without soark knock. At the same time, the heat absorbtion is also a good way to prevent any pre-igniton issues as well.
2) It's safe. It has a fairly high flash point.
3) It's cheap.
Having said all that, people have accomplished good results with pure meth, pure water, and everything in between.
Dec 6, 2009, 07:17 AM
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Evan - I would like to test 100% water (finding VP Meth is a PITA). I currently have a MW10 jet installed for running ~29psi tapering to ~22psi on stock 9 turbo (Meth/Water combo with 91 octane). I would like to go back to my straight 91 tune (~22psi) and ad a bit of boost if possible and go to straight water injection. My question is how much boost do you think I can run on 91 and the stock turbo with water injection and what size jet should I use? TIA!
Dec 7, 2009, 09:12 AM
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Evan - I would like to test 100% water (finding VP Meth is a PITA). I currently have a MW10 jet installed for running ~29psi tapering to ~22psi on stock 9 turbo (Meth/Water combo with 91 octane). I would like to go back to my straight 91 tune (~22psi) and ad a bit of boost if possible and go to straight water injection. My question is how much boost do you think I can run on 91 and the stock turbo with water injection and what size jet should I use? TIA!
I have seen 36 PSI on 100% water on 91oct (stock 9 turbo). It really depends on the temp outside and to see if you can create enough heat to evaporate it all. Start small then go big with nozzle and boost MW7 or so. Are you worried about freezing the water? If not go for it! If you need antifreeze add any Alky to the mix of about 20% and it wont be a issue.
Ultimately you would like to focus more on in-cylinder cooling as that has bigger gains, however that does require direct port jets and great ignition. Remember when tuning, water wont affect AFRs so lean it out, the more the better. Timing may be sacrificed a bit.
LMK if you need more info ect ect.
Evan Smith
Dec 7, 2009, 01:01 PM
#14
For 100% water, proper atomization is crucial for even cylinder distribution, so jet size and location are important. Meth does help in that regard. Usually only need one jet but in the summer can gain from one 0.4mm jet prior to the IC (increases core efficiency) This really works in hot dry climates. Cold areas should only need one jet.
Direct port eliminates the concern for improper distribution from water. But also has little to no atomization so full size droplets are entering the cylinder. Powerful ignition is a must! This + a mid size jet 18in away are the ultimate in a injection setup. EGT and AFR's gauges are a must at this point. Mixtures should stick to 100% H20, 80/20, 75/25. H20 being the primary.
Evan Smith
Dec 7, 2009, 02:41 PM
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Some good info in here.
I second the small nozzle first idea. The other thing to remember is that you will hit the quench point much sooner with pure water compared to a 50/50 mixture. An M10 with pure water is pretty aggressive. An M7 should be about right, maybe a bit conservative.
Generally I have not seen much in the way of conclusive data about multiple nozzles versus one larger nozzle so long as you have enough pressure for excellent atomization, but there is certanly no harm in doing multiple locations. Theoretically the bulk of the IAT drop really occurs in the intake manifold if you are looking at heat absorbed over time.
I second the small nozzle first idea. The other thing to remember is that you will hit the quench point much sooner with pure water compared to a 50/50 mixture. An M10 with pure water is pretty aggressive. An M7 should be about right, maybe a bit conservative.
Generally I have not seen much in the way of conclusive data about multiple nozzles versus one larger nozzle so long as you have enough pressure for excellent atomization, but there is certanly no harm in doing multiple locations. Theoretically the bulk of the IAT drop really occurs in the intake manifold if you are looking at heat absorbed over time.