Direct Port Meth Injection
Sep 23, 2008, 07:27 PM
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Direct Port Meth Injection
Just curious for the guys that have switched from a single nozzle to a direct port setup, how do you like? Were you able to squeeze out a few degrees more timing? Main question was it worth it?
Thank you for your time
Brandon
Thank you for your time
Brandon
Sep 23, 2008, 07:34 PM
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Yeah I have been thinking about this for quite a while but cant decide if its "really" worth it. I mean since I am pulling off the head I might as well tap and try it, still after researching since I had the evo I am still unsure if it is worth it. The only benefit I see is not going thru IAC's every year LOL.
I guess great minds think alike LOL
I guess great minds think alike LOL
Sep 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
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I have never come accross and Evo that has direct injection setup. I know I have seen some SRT guys do it but I have never really seen a before and after direct injection compared to just injecting in the UICP.
In theory it should allow more time becuase of the in cyclinder cooling however the charge air will not be as cool since it did not have time to absorb the meth.
hmmm....now you got me wanting to know more also.
In theory it should allow more time becuase of the in cyclinder cooling however the charge air will not be as cool since it did not have time to absorb the meth.
hmmm....now you got me wanting to know more also.
Sep 26, 2008, 12:42 PM
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I have never come accross and Evo that has direct injection setup. I know I have seen some SRT guys do it but I have never really seen a before and after direct injection compared to just injecting in the UICP.
In theory it should allow more time becuase of the in cyclinder cooling however the charge air will not be as cool since it did not have time to absorb the meth.
hmmm....now you got me wanting to know more also.
In theory it should allow more time becuase of the in cyclinder cooling however the charge air will not be as cool since it did not have time to absorb the meth.
hmmm....now you got me wanting to know more also.
Last edited by bnice01; Sep 26, 2008 at 12:46 PM.
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Sep 26, 2008, 04:01 PM
#9
Don't forget less meth being pushed into your BOV and ruining your diaphrams 
The back sides of your intake valves will sure stay clean too lol.
I would put the nozzles as far back up the runners as you can though to combat the puddling effect. With IDC's higher than say 60%, you already have a slight puddling effect happening with the injectors so its not of GREAT concern but its still something you'll want to minimize.
Somoene needs to offer a dual chamber fuel injector with one side for pump gas and the other for the meth
If you run an injector with 100% stainless steel internals you can run straight meth thru an injector but you can't mix water with it. Since meth absorbs water so quickly you'll always have water in the mix to some degree which makes it quite a problem when injectors are concerned.
The back sides of your intake valves will sure stay clean too lol.
I would put the nozzles as far back up the runners as you can though to combat the puddling effect. With IDC's higher than say 60%, you already have a slight puddling effect happening with the injectors so its not of GREAT concern but its still something you'll want to minimize.
Somoene needs to offer a dual chamber fuel injector with one side for pump gas and the other for the meth
If you run an injector with 100% stainless steel internals you can run straight meth thru an injector but you can't mix water with it. Since meth absorbs water so quickly you'll always have water in the mix to some degree which makes it quite a problem when injectors are concerned.
Last edited by Jack_of_Trades; Sep 26, 2008 at 04:08 PM.
Sep 26, 2008, 04:30 PM
#10
With 100% meth, yes it could be benifical. However there are draw backs:
1. You use more a lot more meth = more $$$
2. Like Dudical26 said you dont get to cool the air charge down which is a big benfit of a injection system. Up to 50 degrees!!!! In cyl temps wont change as much as a 50/50 water meth standard injection would. (Water removes heat better and more than meth)
3. If you are running 100% meth, due to the low viscosity of meth it should spread evenly to all 4 cyl with out being direct port. 50/50 is a different story
4. I think 100% meth is easy to tune to make more power but for the cost you might as well run 100 octane. Once you go direct port you will only see the octane rating benifit, maybe a little cooler temps, but not much different than a higher octane fuel. 50/50 is more cost effective and if you tune correctly you will see just as much power as 100% meth.
I currently am working on getting another Aquamist but a HFS system. Ill be using it for 100% meth and keep my Aquamist 2d system for 100% water and have 4 jets, two pumps and 2 HSV's. 2 meth jets, 2 H2O jets; 1 meth jet before the IC 1 meth jet after IC. Then 2 H2O jets 6 inchs from the TB. It should allow for the coolest air temps and with H20 having more pressure than before allowing it to flow to all cyl more equal.
Good luck with your quest!
Evan Smith
1. You use more a lot more meth = more $$$
2. Like Dudical26 said you dont get to cool the air charge down which is a big benfit of a injection system. Up to 50 degrees!!!! In cyl temps wont change as much as a 50/50 water meth standard injection would. (Water removes heat better and more than meth)
3. If you are running 100% meth, due to the low viscosity of meth it should spread evenly to all 4 cyl with out being direct port. 50/50 is a different story
4. I think 100% meth is easy to tune to make more power but for the cost you might as well run 100 octane. Once you go direct port you will only see the octane rating benifit, maybe a little cooler temps, but not much different than a higher octane fuel. 50/50 is more cost effective and if you tune correctly you will see just as much power as 100% meth.
I currently am working on getting another Aquamist but a HFS system. Ill be using it for 100% meth and keep my Aquamist 2d system for 100% water and have 4 jets, two pumps and 2 HSV's. 2 meth jets, 2 H2O jets; 1 meth jet before the IC 1 meth jet after IC. Then 2 H2O jets 6 inchs from the TB. It should allow for the coolest air temps and with H20 having more pressure than before allowing it to flow to all cyl more equal.
Good luck with your quest!
Evan Smith
Last edited by Vivid Racing; Sep 26, 2008 at 04:32 PM.
Nov 20, 2008, 05:59 PM
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For water/methanol injection one of the issues has always been jet placement. Closer to the combustion chamber the more the injectant has a direct effect on influencing the flame front in the combustion chamber. Its because of the injectant not breaking down into smaller particles like as with a jet located close to the IC exit tank. The bigger molecules as a result of port injection help the flame front to propagate through the combustion chamber without pre-igniting...........high octane fuel has this effect = resists premature burn and heat spot ignition. Methanol even goes further with this because of its octane value, so if you can tune for the methanol by removing some of the fuel via PCM tuning and then replacing it with methanol and then adding boost you will have the ability to make a lot more power.
Injecting at the IC exit tank for instance, gives the injectant more time to break down into smaller particles and become more thoroughly mixed with the Intake air change and this helps to cool the charge down........the effect is very similar to why an intercooler is used and why cool dense air make more power. A water and methanol mix injected at this point does better at intake air charge temp cooling then straight water or methanol.
Helping to control knock is the main thing being done with water/methanol injection and the thing is that with knock and turbo cars the intake air charge temp is part of the issue as well the quality of the burn in the combustion chamber..........by using a jet in the intake air charge tract to cool the charge AND using port injection you can go after TWO issues that are directly effecting knock.
Here's some images of jet adapters installed for a direct port injection setup:
(Plug installed in the jet adapters)
IC exit tank jet and soft pipe install
Soft pipe adapter if drilling a IC is not an option
(Last image has plug installed in the jet adapter)
Subi intake
Toyota
Injecting at the IC exit tank for instance, gives the injectant more time to break down into smaller particles and become more thoroughly mixed with the Intake air change and this helps to cool the charge down........the effect is very similar to why an intercooler is used and why cool dense air make more power. A water and methanol mix injected at this point does better at intake air charge temp cooling then straight water or methanol.
Helping to control knock is the main thing being done with water/methanol injection and the thing is that with knock and turbo cars the intake air charge temp is part of the issue as well the quality of the burn in the combustion chamber..........by using a jet in the intake air charge tract to cool the charge AND using port injection you can go after TWO issues that are directly effecting knock.
Here's some images of jet adapters installed for a direct port injection setup:
(Plug installed in the jet adapters)
IC exit tank jet and soft pipe install
Soft pipe adapter if drilling a IC is not an option
(Last image has plug installed in the jet adapter)
Subi intake
Toyota
