TC-SST Shift time

SlipstreamFirst · Sep 2, 2009, 11:43 PM

I have a mild wager with a friend and I cannot find this answer anywhere.
Here is goes...

How long does the TC-SST take to shift gears. I know it claims"lightning fast" shifts and I know people quote the Wiki article on the DSG which claims "the DSG takes only about 8 milliseconds to upshift. In comparison, the sequential manual transmission (SMT) in the Ferrari F430 Scuderia takes 60 milliseconds to shift."

But what is the ACTUAL upshift time for the TC-SST. Does anyone know the actual documented time?

majinfajita · Sep 3, 2009, 08:06 AM

The problem with documented times is that they are dependent on how they measure "shift time". Is it from the start of disengagement of the first clutch to engagement of the second? Or is it just the physical time for the gear selection to change not including dis/engagement of the clutch?

I believe the 8ms figure quoted for the dsg is merely gear selection...when the IS-F first came out, the toyota marketing gear included a chart of shift speeds all measured on the same criteria (disengagement to engagement) but I'll be damned if I have a link to it or remember any numbers other than the fact that the IS-F was like 2nd or 3rd fastest (faster than the DSG, SMG I/II/III or the F430's "superfast F1" tranny but slower than the 599's transmission)

toredefine · Sep 3, 2009, 08:24 AM

Keep in mind too, there are three modes of shifting profiles offered on the Evo X MR. Normal, Sport and S-Sport. S-Sport would be the fastest shift time, with the least amount of slippage.

The Ralliart is only offered with Normal and Sport mode profiles. Even though the RA and Evo X MR share the same TC transmission and TCU, the software and modes differ. What I'm trying to say, the transmission is able to shift faster than our Ralliart model's allow. Is it the RA's shift time what you're after?

07outty · Sep 3, 2009, 08:36 AM

i did some reasearch and found that in sport mode....

....the up-shift time is measured as R.R.F.

........... ( really f#*kin fast )

suprPHREAK · Sep 3, 2009, 04:13 PM

I remember reading somehwere that the evo in S-Sport shifts in 0.2 seconds. How that is measured, i really dont know.

kbittn03 · Sep 3, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07outty

i did some reasearch and found that in sport mode....

....the up-shift time is measured as R.R.F.

........... ( really f#*kin fast )

haha that's awesome!

To the OP.. U prolli have an awesome ralliart.. And ur friend prolli has a srt-4 or a colbat ss with a 5 speed... Just like my friends. And all my friends were like Kyle, ur a big pu$ that can't handle a manual. And i took the lashings and took the lashings til I was finally like u know what get in. And I take them for a drive.. I put my ralliart in manual sport.. Was going about 30 in second gear.. And was like watch.. I hit the paddleshifter up 3 times showed them 5th and then hit it down 3 times and showed them 2nd again.. I then looked at my friend and said " I just changed 6 gears in about 2 seconds.. if u can shift faster then that I will get my g/f to wash ur car naked" (she was pretty sexi at the time.. She broke up with me that dirty little ****..) ... So moral of the story.. U go show ur friend the lightning fast shifts and tell him u want to see him shift faster haha

SlipstreamFirst · Sep 3, 2009, 07:00 PM

No, my friend has a VW GTI with DSG.

toredefine · Sep 3, 2009, 10:40 PM

Is DSG twin clutch? If it isn't, I guarantee our transmissions can shift faster. The old SMG trans in the previous model BMW M3's had a similar (relatively) GETRAG trans. as us now, but those were single clutch and shift times were horrid compared to their new twin clutch.

SlipstreamFirst · Sep 4, 2009, 12:12 AM

Yes, the DSG is twin clutch. That is where this whole thing began. If you read the original post, I mention the DSG having a 8ms shift speed. Since the SST doesn't advertise its shift time, I am sure its slower, but how much slower is what I was asking.

majinfajita · Sep 4, 2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipstreamFirst

Yes, the DSG is twin clutch. That is where this whole thing began. If you read the original post, I mention the DSG having a 8ms shift speed. Since the SST doesn't advertise its shift time, I am sure its slower, but how much slower is what I was asking.

Regardless of times, you'll notice a couple of things driving a dsg vs. tc-sst back to back (having owned both) in manual mode:

1) The dsg requires abrupt-sounding (but not felt) throttle cuts between shifts. Sounds like your car lets out a big fart. Look it up on vwvortex, "dsg fart". Some really like it, I hated it. Its only felt and not heard in any case. I have not heard my Ralliart fart to date. This fart is likely the reason for point #2...
2) DSG shifts were smoother, even at WOT than the TC-SST, but the the TC-SST seems faster (though more choppy)
3) The rev-matching on the TC-SST is far superior, especially in lower gears. The best experiment (if you want to swing by a VW dealer) is to take a GTI out, and as you're coming to a stop, do a 2-1 downshift. You will buck slightly. Now do the same in your TC-SST, the rev-match is perfect and smooth.
4) The TC-SST will not shift for you in manual mode whereas the DSG will automatically shift right before redline. The DSG will also downshift for you if you drop below 1200rpm in a given gear. I honestly haven't let revs drop below 1200 in the RA when driving in manual so I cannot comment on this behavior with the TC-SST

In Auto mode, the TC-SST seems smoother than the DSG, strangely, though the programming is better on the DSG in daily driving.

Either way, twin clutch transmissions, whether made by Borg-Warner or Getrag or another company, are here to stay and getting better with each iteration....

velocityhead · Sep 4, 2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majinfajita

The DSG will also downshift for you if you drop below 1200rpm in a given gear.

The TC-SST does this too, but I'm not sure in which gears/RPM/criteria this will happen at. I've only noticed it when forgetting to downshift at a stop sign.

majinfajita · Sep 4, 2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocityhead

The TC-SST does this too, but I'm not sure in which gears/RPM/criteria this will happen at. I've only noticed it when forgetting to downshift at a stop sign.

Ah good, the alternative is for it to keep it in gear but disengage the clutches so it's freewheeling (to avoid stalling), so at least that behavior is the same.

SlipstreamFirst · Sep 4, 2009, 01:05 PM

Good advice for when I get my Ralliart...

...but I was looking for exact numbers...

07outty · Sep 4, 2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlipstreamFirst

Good advice for when I get my Ralliart...

...but I was looking for exact numbers...

..................so get on the WWW and do some research.

boondoc · Sep 4, 2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majinfajita

Regardless of times, you'll notice a couple of things driving a dsg vs. tc-sst back to back (having owned both) in manual mode:

1) The dsg requires abrupt-sounding (but not felt) throttle cuts between shifts. Sounds like your car lets out a big fart. Look it up on vwvortex, "dsg fart". Some really like it, I hated it. Its only felt and not heard in any case. I have not heard my Ralliart fart to date. This fart is likely the reason for point #2...
2) DSG shifts were smoother, even at WOT than the TC-SST, but the the TC-SST seems faster (though more choppy)
3) The rev-matching on the TC-SST is far superior, especially in lower gears. The best experiment (if you want to swing by a VW dealer) is to take a GTI out, and as you're coming to a stop, do a 2-1 downshift. You will buck slightly. Now do the same in your TC-SST, the rev-match is perfect and smooth.
4) The TC-SST will not shift for you in manual mode whereas the DSG will automatically shift right before redline. The DSG will also downshift for you if you drop below 1200rpm in a given gear. I honestly haven't let revs drop below 1200 in the RA when driving in manual so I cannot comment on this behavior with the TC-SST

In Auto mode, the TC-SST seems smoother than the DSG, strangely, though the programming is better on the DSG in daily driving.

Either way, twin clutch transmissions, whether made by Borg-Warner or Getrag or another company, are here to stay and getting better with each iteration....

I jus researched the fart. ****, ppl actually like that? Must me a V-dub state of mind. Exact numbers is not easy to find i tried lookin awhile back myself but it does shift faster IMO.