Conical intakes BEWARE! TTP tunes a 2009 Ralliart with fueling problems from intake!
Jul 21, 2009, 11:42 AM
#1
Single scroll 4b11's running lean with conical intake, dynotesting by TTP.
Daniel came in yesterday to get his 2009 Ralliart tuned with his new parts. Dan had brought in the car with the downpipe and testpipe installed along with an Ultimate Racing intake filter and adapter.
Dan also brought in a boost pill for us to install, which we did after our baseline.
So first up after the car is strapped down as we always do, we decided to baseline the car.
Personally I always datalog the car while baselining in order to see what state of tune the car is currently in and what we will need to do to get it where we would like to see it.
This particular baseline did not go as planned as upon our initial few seconds of testing the car, the AFR from the parts had the car at 13.8AFR at peak boost and it was sustainably lean until we aborted the pass due to the airfuel ratio.
We have been saying this from the beginning... STOP buying intakes that lean out the car. An intake system has one function, which besides filtration, to flow air. Outside of smooth pathing of the air, filter type and location, that is where the job of the intake should end.
We ADAMANTLY discourage the use any intake system with an enlarged MAF adapter section specifically designed to bypass unmetered air from the intake past the maf sensor. As in this case, the car ran DANGEROUSLY LEAN and catatrophic engine damage can occur over time.
After we aborted the dyno pull, we moved on to tuning the car which outside of fueling, worked very well.
Unfortunately for this buyer, he received great results however his fueling maps are maxed out at 7.4afr in the ECU and it is still in the 12's AFR due to the intake design.
So in closing, we would have loved to have a solid baseline for the car, but in our professional experience, it was too lean to forcefully run the car wide open and risk burning the pistons or valves.
Here is the dynosheet once tuned:
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Jul 21, 2009, 03:53 PM
#3
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but a by product of more airflow SHOULD be that it makes the engine run lean. if you install a part which doesnt require an adjustment in fuel, then in theory, that part isnt going to make more power. More power comes from the engine being able to either burn more fuel, or do more work on the amount of fuel it has.
what you SHOULD be saying to people is, do not install aftermarket parts without making the necessary adjustments to the tune.
what you SHOULD be saying to people is, do not install aftermarket parts without making the necessary adjustments to the tune.
Jul 21, 2009, 04:26 PM
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Im very happy with the results i got, given the minimal mods and everything. my car has stock FMIC, stock IC piping, Stock cat-back. only mods are AMS boost pill, AMS test pipe, CP-E down pipe, and Ultimate Racing intake.
how dangerous is it to run it this lean?
I dont really have the time or money for another intake / getting this fixed right now.
how dangerous is it to run it this lean?
I dont really have the time or money for another intake / getting this fixed right now.
Jul 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
#6
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TTP, since u've probably dynoed a few RAs with different intakes, which ones would u say are safe? AMS, Injen...? Just wondering cause I was hoping to order an intake soon but don't want one that will mess things up. Thanks
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Jul 21, 2009, 05:51 PM
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luckily i didnt run it long without a tune... i installed the intake a few minutes before heading over there. so much for the company stating you dont need a tune with that intake haha
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dasilveira (Mar 19, 2017)
Jul 21, 2009, 06:13 PM
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but a by product of more airflow SHOULD be that it makes the engine run lean. if you install a part which doesnt require an adjustment in fuel, then in theory, that part isnt going to make more power. More power comes from the engine being able to either burn more fuel, or do more work on the amount of fuel it has.
Last edited by heavyD; Jul 21, 2009 at 06:16 PM.
Jul 21, 2009, 06:16 PM
#12
like others have said, aftermarket intakes, even just a new filter, will increase airflow, and in turn lean out the afr. the only question is how much, and whether or not it is unmetered. in any case you're supposed to tune it and only then it will run optimally.
even if it is running lean, the system was supposed to dump even more fuel to keep it rich, if i recall the ecu maps correctly. in that sense, it's not supposed to run lean.
Jul 21, 2009, 06:36 PM
#13
You just have to know what you buy, and make sure you do your upgrades safe.
If the part you buy need a tune then tune it.
Or set up your goal by stages, And when you got all the parts what you want for let say stage 1 install them and imadiatly tune the car with a respectable tuner.
You will be satisfied and safe.
If the part you buy need a tune then tune it.
Or set up your goal by stages, And when you got all the parts what you want for let say stage 1 install them and imadiatly tune the car with a respectable tuner.
You will be satisfied and safe.
Last edited by Noize; Jul 23, 2009 at 01:49 PM.
Jul 21, 2009, 07:40 PM
#15
Did you read the part where he stated unmetered air was entering the system? The ECU can compensate for more air but only if it is metered. The problem is that when the dimensions around the MAF sensor change the ECU is not adding the required fuel to maintain a safe ratio. Even with a tune it's not the most stable way to run a car.
Thank you.
