safc ii

[rhyzin]

^using that "fact" is a bit of false reasoning. the pdf above would allude that the sensor used in the RA is a hotwire type sensor(part 2, fig 3 & 4, in the pdf), something that mitsu doesn't seem to ever have used in one of their sub-2 liter cars, at least. although there is mention of a pressure sensor in the pdf, there is no evidence that the RA uses such a sensor. you can tell by comparing fig 2a to fig 1 that the pressure sensor is the sensor on the bottom left, not the RA sensor which is on the right.

[Boeturbolancer]

then that would state that the piggybacks RRM uses wouldn't adjust anything... They intercept that same red/white wire. They also modify hz frequency which is the premise for the karmen vortex signal. Thus the sensor must be karmen... perhaps there is some special calibration of the frequency needed in order to see it's deviation??

[Myszkewicz]

Originally Posted by Boeturbolancer

then that would state that the piggybacks RRM uses wouldn't adjust anything... They intercept that same red/white wire. They also modify hz frequency which is the premise for the karmen vortex signal. Thus the sensor must be karmen...

That's a bit of information that would have been nice to know. Anything else you can share?

perhaps there is some special calibration of the frequency needed in order to see it's deviation??

There shouldn't be, aside from calibrating the voltage scale of the display, and the time slice. Unless I'm missing something?

[Arithmetic]

Originally Posted by Treilix

They have them working on standard lancers (OZ, ES) not the 2.4. If there was a way BELIEVE me i tried. I know there was someone claiming that he had done it on "several" ralliarts, but after some decent questioning, he backed out.

I have a dyno from a member that had a shop hook up a s-afc2 on the 2.4L MIVEC. He gain like 10whp I believe.

[rhyzin]

maybe the piggy for the RA is a different model and someone didn't tell you j/k

i know there are a few versions of the PSC1 and that all piggybacks will want to cut into that red/white wire. those with the safc all couldn't have hooked it up wrong.

[PR_Mivec]

Originally Posted by rhyzin

^using that "fact" is a bit of false reasoning. the pdf above would allude that the sensor used in the RA is a hotwire type sensor(part 2, fig 3 & 4, in the pdf), something that mitsu doesn't seem to ever have used in one of their sub-2 liter cars, at least. although there is mention of a pressure sensor in the pdf, there is no evidence that the RA uses such a sensor. you can tell by comparing fig 2a to fig 1 that the pressure sensor is the sensor on the bottom left, not the RA sensor which is on the right.

ok i see...
then were are in square 1

the fact im relating to:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdf/technic...tation/202.pdf
http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdf/product...tation/202.pdf

think is page 37 and page 21 on the pdf's

see and note that all mivec engines that are "sub2 liter" and even the fto's (6cil) are assigned a pressure sensor setup (press-5) and the maps used are either M2-a or M3-b <---like our ecu (funny thing isn't it).. so if there are wrong who we should believe....
now is karman or not who has it right consensus or facts?

[Boeturbolancer]

only other info i'll share is that the sensor IS Karmen... now the varience in it's setup and frequency could be different than any other Karmen sensor.

After all... if i wanted to ensure people couldn't tamper with my stuff i'd figure a way to modify it so that standard off the shelf products would be useless.

[blk-majik]

boe has a good piont. RRM did it by tapping this wire and the RPM signal.

From what I understrood about Karmen sensors, they report airflow via frequency, right? I never heard anything about their ALWAYS having to be a square/step wave. Typically, I have only seen Karmen's that use a 5v step wave. However, a 5v sine wave would be just as effective, but would require a slightly different circuit. No big deal.

IF our sensor is a Karmen (i believe it is, however an odd implamentation) and the oscillioscope is showing a sine wave, the wave ITSELF should not really change as air flow is increased. still rising to 5v on the y-axis. If you scope is old, the wave might narrow (IE: the x-axis may change due to the sampling). You said it did not. Does your scope show a x delta? If so, did it change?

Some old scopes i used will keep like 1.5 waves, regardless of the frequency, but show a change in delta, indicating the frequency change and x-axis scaling.

just a thougth. either way, great work guys. we are getting somewhere =)

[Thunder-rush]

It's not karman I have the RRM piggy and R4 software it runs from 1.6v idle to 4.6-7v full blast and the tables are X=RPM and Y=voltage. And NO it's not compatible with either SAFC,AFC or old blue E-manage. I tried the SAFC and it's not compatible.

[rhyzin]

here's from the manual for the 2.0 4G94:

[rhyzin]

i don't know anything about electronics, but i have a question about transistors. for both sensors (RA and g94), they have a transistor connected to the red/white wire. the r/w wire is a constant 5v from the ecu. the 5v is connected to the transistor in the sensor. so the sensing part of the sensor inputs a value between 0-5v. my question is, when the voltage from the sensor reaches 5v, does that allow the path to ground causing the 5v portion of the square wave? then this in turn means there's a 0v presence when the sensor inputs <5v? this would make both a frequency type sensor, no?

karman


RA

[blk-majik]

Originally Posted by Thunder-rush

It's not karman I have the RRM piggy and R4 software it runs from 1.6v idle to 4.6-7v full blast and the tables are X=RPM and Y=voltage. And NO it's not compatible with either SAFC,AFC or old blue E-manage. I tried the SAFC and it's not compatible.

From what Myszkewicz found during his testing, this cant be true, unless he is reading the wrong signal. Otherwise, the sine-wave amplatude would have changed, which would have been very obvious.

[Myszkewicz]

Originally Posted by blk-majik

From what Myszkewicz found during his testing, this cant be true, unless he is reading the wrong signal.

Could very well have been, although I was backprobing the right wire. I tried again today, and got a different result. Still not what I was looking for, but I sure didn't get a sine wave this time. I got what looked like a very faint EKG trace.

As I said before, my scope is OLD. It's an Aron BS-310S. I can't even find much about it on the 'Net.

Maybe someone with a newer scope (and a little more experience using it) can come up with the right answer. All I'm doing is adding to the confusion with my various results.

[PR_Mivec]

i hate electronic jiberish just prove that it is or isnt and get it over with

[rhyzin]

we're doing all this so you don't have to