Turbo Project!!!!

[qlitv]

Yep thats all I needed, I just want a good A/F ratio and some good expected #
I just don't want the engine running lean cuz is my daily driver and without it im done

[PR_Mivec]

Originally Posted by $MIVEC$

Well the problem here is that the lt-10 was configured for a Honda. Called the local microtech dealer and the guy pretty much just said it will be useless on the RA. I asked if they could reconfigure but he just said it would be a hassle and does not know if hes able to do it. Not surprisingly he offered a new one that would work but warned that the TPS sensor must be taken out and need a crank sensor from a Talon for the lt-10 to work on the RA.

As far as the timing goes wont the stock ECU conflict with the T-piggy map B?. As in the stock trying to revert to default? i kinda recall reading something about timing conflict

Si sabes algo de como bregar la lt-10 bajo la configuracion que tiene pues ayudarias a evitar tener un pisapapel de $650 porque se jodio el engine management por el momento

on the n/a piggy there is no possible way to work the timing....so you can put 100 on map B and it wouldnt do squat
as far as the thing reseting itself..... thats an odd thing

[DangerousDan]

the stock ECU sees only the signal coming from the sensors with the turbo piggy, so it would not be able to detect that it was off. the reason the ecu can figure out you are changing the maf signal is because there are other sensors that double check those readings. the timing is checked by the two sensors you are modifying the signal on, which is why you have to modify both at the same time.

the problem with our timing signal is the fact that they are odd signals from the physical components, not the electronic components. I don't see how changing the sensor out would make any difference to the microtech; the sensor can only see what the crank sensor gear (for lack of the correct terminology) is capable of producing. the sensor is just going to translate the tooth arrangement to a signal the ECU can understand, and IIRC the microtech units can do either magnetic or hall sensors can you elaborate on changing out the crank sensor for us?

I'm not sure how much customizing is done either, have you tried contacting microtech directly about what to do to change the unit to a different model car? also, can't you use MAP and RPM instead of TPS for load? I wouldn't think you'd need a TPS reference at all, most of the units I have researched or put my hands on don't require anything accept MAP/MAF and RPM that may leave a tip in question though.

Juan, have you had any discussions with thunder-rush and his kit with the NA piggyback? I've spoken through tah intarwebz with him quite a bit, but it's been quite some time since I posed any direct questions on his tuning. maybe he'll post up

[qlitv]

but there is a chance that the stock ecu rests it self with the N/A piggy! ?

[DangerousDan]

that's what hackish has been saying lately. I would say at this point it's up in the air. also, if you have already pegged your fuel trims and thrown a CEL you would be able to control the fuel long term with a piggyback, but then you lose the main reason to stay with a piggyback: the stock ECU system will not effectively control the car(when a cel is present it is in a default mode because it can not rely on one or more sensors, not to be confused with limp mode) and you no longer get any warning (the lights already on) when an issue arises.

most likely: the stock ecu will attempt to correct any closed loop tuning you do with a piggyback, but still should minimally effect your open loop (wide open throttle) tuning. it's known that the ECU references cells in a table for the values the sensors read in open loop. it's under discussion whether the fuel trims have any control in open loop operation. you can't tune closed loop unless you can trick the ECU into thinking it's seeing stoich, and from what hackish has been saying the ECU has an error checking function for the O2 circuit and it can't be fooled at all with what's available to us now.

this is all unconfirmed, we will have to wait until either hackish sells his first kit or we disassemble the fueling routines on the ROM. still haven't gotten that phone call though, she was supposed to call me back on Monday

[DClipse]

I've been speaking with a guy in the shop that's fixing my car now, and he says that with some cars he turbo's he makes them run in open loop completely. He obviously didn't want to say how, but does that sound doable? I mean, one thing I know for sure, is that my car always ran consistently in open loop. Is that something you're trying to achieve?

[RALLIevoLUTion]

your setup is looking good what radiator are u using ?

[RALLIART15]

hey qlitv sorry to bust into your thread and this is slightly but since your on the ecu topic and I don't know if anyone has stopped in on my thread. Now as for what I mentioned in my thread, again qlitv sorry, my tech in FL is 100% sure that he has all the needed rom's and programs to crack our ecu but since he is in FL and I am in ME it's a bit far to travel if he is wrong so to anyone in Jacksonville or close enough to drive and willing to try please PM me.

qlitv thanx for puttin up with me.

[Thunder-rush]

Originally Posted by qlitv

Yep thats all I needed, I just want a good A/F ratio and some good expected #
I just don't want the engine running lean cuz is my daily driver and without it im done

Hey nice job man! Well the NA piggy will work as I still have it in my car but, as mentioned by PRMivec it wont tune timing and you are limited in that way. As for your system I think you should get good results with what you have but as you have stock WRX inj you should install the return line with a rising rate press reg to jackup the press as boost increases. In your case what I would do is try to put a very fat mixture of fuel with the press reg example.(45 standing press then setup a 6 to 1 fuel/boost press or more so the car runs fat like 9.5 A/F) then with the piggy trim down the fat.! jejeje but doing so that you have a healthy A/F

[DangerousDan]

Originally Posted by DClipse

I've been speaking with a guy in the shop that's fixing my car now, and he says that with some cars he turbo's he makes them run in open loop completely. He obviously didn't want to say how, but does that sound doable? I mean, one thing I know for sure, is that my car always ran consistently in open loop. Is that something you're trying to achieve?

yeah, you can force open loop by defeating the front O2 sensor signal, among other things. the ECU can't determine the mix so it will run by whatever is programmed into the open loop maps. this is also why I don't agree 100% with hackish's hypothesis about the fuel trims affecting open loop driving; they are not needed and impossible for the ECU to verify when it's running in default open loop mode. they may affect a perfectly running car though(no CEL in other words), that's to be determined...

open loop is very simple to tune to, which is why hackish is spending so much time working to get the kit reliable in closed loop. with our car the primary trigger for open loop is wide open throttle, so at partial throttle and obdii compliance your car will be too lean(turbo), and your changes in that part of the map are being fought by the ECU fuel trims.

IMO the only real use for closed loop is for obdii compliance and that it's good for a daily driver. it's a big PITA for anyone trying to get a fair amount of performance out of the car

[$MIVEC$]

Originally Posted by Thunder-rush

Hey nice job man! Well the NA piggy will work as I still have it in my car but, as mentioned by PRMivec it wont tune timing and you are limited in that way. As for your system I think you should get good results with what you have but as you have stock WRX inj you should install the return line with a rising rate press reg to jackup the press as boost increases. In your case what I would do is try to put a very fat mixture of fuel with the press reg example.(45 standing press then setup a 6 to 1 fuel/boost press or more so the car runs fat like 9.5 A/F) then with the piggy trim down the fat.! jejeje but doing so that you have a healthy A/F

If i remember well the stock blue wrx injectors are like 440cc and from your post im kinda getting they wont be enough What other WRX options are out there that fit or what injector size do you recommend.

[RALLIART15]

Dclipse has confirmed that Lucas dsm 550 injectors will fit you just have to push them in a little harder.

[migueralliart]

Damn , nice setup !!!!

With the gas in PR at .96 cents/liter this will be fun!!!

[DangerousDan]

Originally Posted by $MIVEC$

If i remember well the stock blue wrx injectors are like 440cc and from your post im kinda getting they wont be enough What other WRX options are out there that fit or what injector size do you recommend.

sounds more like to me that they are enough but the NA piggy doesn't afford enough control over them to not use an FPR. in order to maintain a decent idle and still have enough fuel to run with boost you have to be able to regulate the pressure differently than in a NA vehicle.

injectors are rated at a certain pressure; you can lower the pressure for less fuel and raise the pressure for more fuel with the same duty cycle. when you can change duty cycle you can be even more selective about your injectors, and being able to change both is ideal, since you can't change the injector duty cycle with the NA piggy you need to be able to change the pressure.

[DClipse]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

yeah, you can force open loop by defeating the front O2 sensor signal, among other things. the ECU can't determine the mix so it will run by whatever is programmed into the open loop maps. this is also why I don't agree 100% with hackish's hypothesis about the fuel trims affecting open loop driving; they are not needed and impossible for the ECU to verify when it's running in default open loop mode. they may affect a perfectly running car though(no CEL in other words), that's to be determined...

open loop is very simple to tune to, which is why hackish is spending so much time working to get the kit reliable in closed loop. with our car the primary trigger for open loop is wide open throttle, so at partial throttle and obdii compliance your car will be too lean(turbo), and your changes in that part of the map are being fought by the ECU fuel trims.

IMO the only real use for closed loop is for obdii compliance and that it's good for a daily driver. it's a big PITA for anyone trying to get a fair amount of performance out of the car

The problem with my car right now it seems is a bad O2 sensor from running rich. The shop that's fixing it said they tried to run it in open loop, but it wasn't too good. I think the reason is that the last tune we did is according to the fuel trims of an already failing sensor. So once they replace it and retune it, then we'll try to run in the open loop. I also think that closed loop sucks. Every time I reset the battery I had to retune the car, cause the ECU switched to a new set of fuel trims. The only thing that was always consistent was open loop. If you can make the car run good like that, I say do it. Who cares for a CEL.